Episode 80:

We all know vet med is hard enough on a good day, but why does it seem like there are members of the profession who are making it harder for each other?

It can be tough to toe the line between wanting to stand up for yourself if you're being disrespected and then wondering if it will put a target on your back with others or your employer.

We're jumping into the reality of coworker and colleague conflict, including some stories from my own experiences, from rude comments and criticism to being undermined, misunderstood, or feeling like you're walking on eggshells around certain people.

Not only am I sharing how to tell the difference between something that is just irritating and something that needs to be addressed, but I’m also looking at how stress and burnout can shape the way we interpret those interactions.

You’ll have clear steps on how to decide when to speak up, when to step back, and when to stop giving someone else’s behavior so much of your energy.

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What You'll Learn In This Episode:

• [11:00] Why not everyone in vet med is going to be someone you click with.

• [12:00] How rejection and criticism can make workplace conflict feel even bigger.

• [16:00] How your brain can start looking for more reasons to dislike someone.

• [17:00] How to tell the difference between annoying behavior and a real problem.

• [20:00] Why patterns and impact matter more than one frustrating interaction.

• [22:00] What being undermined by a colleague can look like in real life.

• [25:00] Why standing up for yourself does not mean reacting in the moment.

• [27:00] When to address it, involve leadership, ignore it, or create distance.

• [30:00] The exhausting trap of trying to change someone else's opinion of you.

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Key Takeaways:

• [17:00] Not every rude or irritating interaction deserves your energy.

• [20:00] Look for patterns, evidence, and impact before deciding what needs action.

• [19:00] Stress and burnout can influence how you interpret interactions with coworkers.

• [26:00] You can address disrespect without needing to react in the moment.

• [27:00] Sometimes the best option is speaking up, involving leadership, creating distance, or letting it go.

• [29:00] Evidence helps you separate a real workplace issue from a situation your brain may be magnifying.

• [30:00] You do not have to change someone else’s opinion of you.

• [34:00] If the other person is not going to change, focus on what you can do to make the situation more sustainable.

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A Truth You Need to Hear:

"You are allowed to be misunderstood. Not every opinion about you needs your energy or to be corrected, defended, or carried home with you."

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S2 Episode 80 Transcript:

Vet Med Is Hard Enough: Why Are We Making It Harder on Each Other? (& What You Can Do About It)

 

[00:00:00-00:01:00] When the People Around You Make Work Harder

[00:00:00] Sometimes it's not the clients, the schedule, or even the medicine making work miserable. It's the people around you, your coworkers, colleagues, and leadership. Something not everyone wants to talk about, but we're getting into it today. The difficult coworkers, gossip, bad-mouthing, and how to figure out what truly needs your attention and what doesn't.

All right, come on in

Welcome to Stop the Burnout, a podcast for veterinary professionals who love medicine but are exhausted by the people pressure, expectations, and the constant mental load that comes with it. If you've ever thought, "I shouldn't feel this drained doing something I care about," you're not alone, and you're definitely not broken.

I'm Dr. Amber Parks, a veterinarian turned stress and burnout coach, and here we talk about the stuff that no one taught us, like how to actually break the stress and burnout patterns once and for all, and how to stay in this profession without losing yourself. You won't find bubble bath, toxic positivity, or self-care fluff pretending to be the solution here.

Let's get into it.

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[00:01:00-00:04:00] How We Respond to Tragedy in Vet Med

 

[00:01:00] All right. Welcome back to another episode of Stop the Burnout. Quick trigger warning, a brief discussion of unaliving. If you are in the veterinary community, which I'm going to guess most if not all of you listening are, you know that we recently lost a colleague, a newer doctor, to unaliving, and it brought up a lot of questions.

And also I kinda saw an interesting side that I know is out there, and I know for a lot of you can be very challenging, and that is how we interact with our colleagues and coworkers. I say that because... and I'm not gonna speak to this person, um, that unalived themselves 'cause I don't know the whole story.

Obviously, our hearts are so heavy, and all the [00:02:00] condolences and thoughts and prayers with this person's family and friends and people that knew her. Obviously, a huge tragedy. It's... I got a little infuriated because two things. One I hope that when we experience and hear about situations like this, that it doesn't become a, "Oh my gosh, all this talk," and then nothing happens and nothing changes after this.

And that's the part that drives me crazy. The second part is what I wanted to speak on, is how some colleagues reacted to that news. Now, this is taken out of context in the sense that it was a post on social media, and some of the comments from veterinarians, and I know, I know of this person, I've never met them, [00:03:00] made me really stop and think, "Okay."

So it was like this beautiful post paying tribute to this doctor that passed, and the comment, one of the comments was, "I don't get it. She was only a doctor for four months." I almost fell off my chair. I ... Now granted, we all know it's like a text, right? You don't have the context, you don't have the tone of the person.

But what the fuck type of thing to write on a tribute to this beautiful human, and that's what you're gonna write? Let alone this is a colleague of yours. So someone else had commented "Yeah, I don't get it either." I'm like, "Guys, that's the fucking point." None of this makes sense in this, in the context of this is awful, why is this happening?

Obviously, we know the pressures and stress, but I [00:04:00] think we're missing the point of did it need to make sense for it to be okay for you, is what I had to hold back from me responding. Because I'm thinking to myself I just was infuriated, but also at the same time I'm am I no better because now a colleague is saying something and I'm ready to jump down their throat?

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[00:04:00-00:08:00] Why the Early Years in Veterinary Medicine Can Be So Hard

 

So I wanted to bring this discussion up, and I wanna, get into some more specifics and what you can do if you're experiencing, working with a, a challenging coworker or colleague. But back to that story it was really interesting. The person, basically they're just, "Yeah, I don't get it," but I'm like, what the hell?

Your first few years, I know for myself as a veterinarian, and I'm sure too for our support team members, our technicians, first few years after school are hard. You learned all this stuff, and you've probably already worked in clinics, but it's different, right? You got the letters after your name.

Especially, not [00:05:00] to minimize my technicians, but as doctors, we have this license, and I know our credentialed technicians here in the US do as well. Not everyone, but many of them. But ultimately, It's a mutual respect, of how much weight lands on you as a veterinarian or you as a support team member.

So vet school's hard. Personal experience, I know. Let alone, I have to laugh, I know I'm going off a side tangent, whatever, you guys are used to that by now.

Someone posted on social media the, the other day, I had some, some post about being neurodivergent, and she was like, "Yeah, I'm really worried about that in vet school.

How did you get through vet school with that?" And I was like, "Great fucking question. I have no idea. I raw dogged vet school and undergrad and my board certification because I didn't know that I had ADHD and was autistic. So I would love to tell you, but I don't ... I couldn't, uh, now," right? Retrospectively I guess I could give some insight, but how I got through, yeah, that I don't [00:06:00] know.

So to say vet school is challenging is an understatement. So it's hard, and I remember thinking in school like, "Okay, this is hard, and when I get out it's gonna be challenging, but at least I'll be making money. At least I'll be getting paid to do what I enjoy," right? Whereas you feel like in school you're getting

You're paying to be miserable to some respect. So I, honestly, I don't think I've met one person that didn't have some aspect of vet school that was challenging, and I think for a vast majority of us, that is the case, right? We all experience, yeah, it wasn't easy, right? So then we come out and we're newer doctors, and it's like a whole different ballgame.

And I know for myself, and I do think some of my coaching clients that were newer doctors that I have talked with about this, they share that, yes, this is [00:07:00] challenging in a whole different way that I couldn't even, wrap my mind around, right? So it is very... bottom line, right? I keep saying it, it's challenging.

I personally did not do an internship or residency. I know for our colleague that passed away, and I'm so sorry, I would say her name. I don't have it in front of me. I'm just rolling off the cuff here. But I know that you guys have heard of it, and no disrespect to her or her family. And I think, too, that's their story to share, but you guys know who I'm talking about.

And if you're listening to this on, a replay I don't know, months down the road this is something that is out there. There's a lot of information on this this really sad situation. Okay, long story short, vet school is hard. You come out, it's hard. You're in an internship and a residency, and I have heard absolute horror stories, so I haven't [00:08:00] witnessed or experienced it firsthand because like I said, I didn't do an internship or residency.

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[00:08:00-00:11:00] Vet Med Is Not Exempt From Difficult Personalities

 

But I can't even imagine, and I know for equine, that's what this woman was in a, equine internship from what I understand, is even more challenging. And I do think there's a lot of the mindset of I suffered, so you should too," or, "This is a rite of passage." Maybe to an extent, but, to the point that this is the end result obviously is absolutely fucking insane.

So thinking about this comment that this veterinarian left and then another veterinarian agreed with this person got me thinking yeah, it doesn't make sense because... and again, I'm taking it out of context 'cause I don't know how it was said. But the replies and follow-up to it were more from like "Oh my God, this makes no sense," right?

It was more of , "I don't get it. She wasn't in practice for 10 or 20 [00:09:00] years." If she were, does that make this okay? No. Why is that even a... what? Why would that thought fall out of your head and then you write it on social media? So all of this to say I heard this- Many years ago, I can't even remember where I heard it, but I'm it always rings true.

And as much as we want to think that everyone in vet med or most of us in vet med are, and I agree, I think we're a very compassionate, caring, empathetic, smart, intelligent bunch. I have to remember that, and someone explained this to me, where think of like the whole human population as a pie, right?

And you're gonna have varying slices of that pie with different personalities. So you get these like just overbearing, really intense people. You'll get some people that are a little more passive [00:10:00] and soft-spoken and laid back, and then you get people that are just fucking miserable no matter what, right?

So if you think of like the whole pie is made up of all of that, right? And not obviously every person is a veterinarian or a veterinary professional, but you take a slice of that pie, and that's vet med. Guess what? You're gonna get some of those people that are overbearing and loud and obnoxious.

You're gonna get some of those people that are soft-spoken, more, a little more laid back, right? It's not because it's our profession, it doesn't exempt us from having those personalities. And I, once I heard that, I was, "Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense." I really couldn't wrap my mind around how people in our profession would act like that.

But just statistically, I guess I would say, we will still have those type of people, right? That if we met in our life outside of vet med, we would be like, "Ugh, I can't with this person." , You know, you meet people like that. You're , [00:11:00] "Not gonna jive with this person. They're a lot," or it, they, we just don't gel together.

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[00:11:00-00:14:00] When a Coworker Gets Under Your Skin

 

So that can happen in vet med, and I think many of us have this preconceived notion that it's almost like a them and us, them being like clients and the general public, and then us in vet med. But it's just not the case. So I want you to have a different perspective of that. And the other parts of this which I've experienced and I've seen is probably what you came here to listen to, was how do you deal with this?

How do you deal with a colleague or a coworker who is rude, they're disrespectful, and there's like this whole spectrum of what that means, which we'll get into. But the first thing is I want you to have that different perspective of not why is this person like this. This is, these are people you are going to encounter in life, right?

And that [00:12:00] I wish for you that you didn't have to, but that is life. So My biggest goal with this episode is to really help you tease out, when do I have to say something or when is this like, all right, screw you, moving on? Because I'll speak for myself, and I would say this is probably at least a few of you, maybe more, I am especially I think just being neurodivergent, like the rejection sensitive dysphoria, which that's a fun one.

If you have never heard of that, go ahead and Google it. We do see it a lot with neurodivergence, but it's not specific to just neurodivergence. So if you're neurotypical, you could have that as well. It's this very almost like, visceral response to rejection, and rejection meaning, someone could say something rude, someone could be , "Well, that's not how I would've treated that case."

So I know for myself, I would replay those conversations. I'm like [00:13:00] dissecting, "Oh my God, am I a bad doctor? What did I do wrong?" And it literally felt like a physiological gut punch when I would encounter situations like that. So what I now know is that a lot of these situations were more of this person's fucking miserable, moving on.

Some of the situations are you're being downright disrespectful, this needs to be addressed, and that's what I want you to identify. I'm not trying to minimize your experience, and again, I'm taking this from seeing a lot of veterinarians post on social media their like their examples, their challenges with other colleagues, and I'm reading it, and again, I don't have tone, right?

So it's out of context. I have one side of the coin, one side of the story. I've didn't see it. I don't know this other person they're talking about. But a lot of what I read is things that You know, my, [00:14:00] coach hat goes on. I'm again, not to discredit anyone, but is that your perception of the situation, right?

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[00:14:00-00:15:00] Perception, Stress, and What Actually Needs Your Attention

 

Which sometimes it doesn't matter if that's our perception, it's our reality. But then I always am, reading between the lines. What other pieces of information are not here? Or did we take what was said, we filled in the blanks, and created this bigger scenario that we're absolutely spiraling over?

That's what I want to try and pull out. So again, I'm not diminishing your experience, but this is how we attempt to, and it's feasible, to try and get through our workday without being completely miserable or feeling like we're walking on eggshells or just that icky feeling, of working with someone that you would rather not work with.[00:15:00]

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[00:15:00-00:17:00] When Your Brain Starts Looking for More Reasons to Dislike Someone

 

[00:15:00]
So the first part is I want you to also recognize that, and this, I'm curious if this has ever happened to you. Now, I, now first of all, I'm not saying that I wasn't probably a bitch and maybe even a bully at times. Full disclosure. When I was really burnt out, I was fucking miserable.

Anything that irritated me, which side note, was many things, that was small I'm sure didn't come out the way that it needed to. Now, I will say most of that irritability was, I kept internal. But I'm sure there were times that these things came out, and I wasn't a great person to be around. Full disclosure.

So I'm not saying I'm a angel by any means. The first thing maybe you're working with someone and they fuck up or they say something and you're just, "Ugh, what?" And then you start to, just see the negative in this person.

[00:16:00] Right? You just have this feeling that... and it's not, you're not imagining it. What happens is our brain is, "I don't like this person," or, "I don't like what they said," and now we start being hyper-aware of little things that are happening or that they've said. But the problem is we're only seeing the negatives.

So even if this person is doing positive things, our brain won't see that because our brain, this is the neuroscience behind it, our brain it doesn't fit with what our brain thinks. So our brain thinks, "No, I don't like this person, and now I'm gonna find all the evidence that supports that." So even if they said something nice to you or if they did something to help you out, even if you recognize that, you're gonna very much minimize it. So we have to realize that our brains will do that.

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[00:17:00-00:20:00] Is It Annoying, or Is It an Actual Problem?

 

So one thing to ask yourself is this something where this person is making things uncomfortable [00:17:00] or is it like an actual problem I potentially need to do something about? And what I mean is maybe it's not great working with this person, and again, just trying to get you through the day without losing your mind, but maybe you feel like you're walking on eggshells.

They, are like passive aggressive, things like that, and you're just "Ugh, this is so annoying." But it doesn't affect maybe patient outcome, what clients hear, what, your other colleagues think of you. So we have to pick our battles in a way. And again, it's not to give this person "Oh, it's okay to treat me like that."

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is we don't put our energy towards it, and that person can be miserable, 'cause that is what is in our control. The problems are when we start to, like maybe they're undermining you to your coworkers, or maybe they're a veterinarian and they're telling clients negative things about you like, "Oh, I wouldn't have [00:18:00] treated that way," or, and obviously there's a way to say that or, "Yeah, they shouldn't have done that," right?

So that's what we have to pull apart, and the way to do that is, all right, what part about what they're saying or they're doing is challenging? So what really is driving me nuts? Did they tell a client that you treated something the wrong way? Obviously, that's a big deal. Or did they make an offhanded comment, and then, just kept cruising and didn't say anything else, the rest of the day was fine?

So that's what we have to tease out. What does that look like, and how does that show up? Now, the other thing, too, is because our brain is always looking for the negative, if a situation happened, we have to look at it through the lens of , "Okay, wait a minute. I know that I'm probably looking at this through the lens of being more [00:19:00] swayed in one direction or another, so I perceive it a certain way, but maybe that's not the true facts of the case."

So and a great example of that is, if your friend or someone's ever told you a story and you're like, "I was there. That's totally not... was not my perception. Whatever that person said or did, I didn't think it was being rude." "But I could see where you thought that if you didn't like this person," right?

So it kind of just depends. This is hard to do. It's hard to do because we have to put half of our brain aside for a second and be like, "Okay, Let me, get curious about this and not just say, 'Okay, well, this person did X, Y, and Z.'" The benefit of this is that you have the control to do this.

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[00:20:00-00:22:00] Look for Patterns and Pay Attention to the Impact

 

So again, not letting people get away with shit they shouldn't, but how much energy do you wanna put into this? And another aspect of this is can you start to see a [00:20:00] pattern? So was this one person, they made an off-the-cuff comment, or is this a repeated thing where maybe they're telling clients, "Well, I wouldn't have done that," like over and over again, it wasn't a one-off?

Which you could argue that's still something to address even if it was a one-off comment. Or are there other people that are doing the same thing? And again, this is a slippery slope, because if we're in that chronic stress burnout stage, we're miserable, our brain is just looking for all the things that confirm what we suspect, which is we're miserable, so then we're gonna start to be , "Oh, well, so and so..."

It's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe we're miserable so then we're short with people, and then people are, "Oh, Dr. Park's this bitch." And then so it's like you're literally confirming what you think they're saying because you are being and acting in a certain way, if that makes sense.

So looking at patterns is another one. The next part is to look at what is the impact.

[00:21:00] So is it annoying, or are they creating real challenges, especially potential challenges or situations with your maybe veterinary license, maybe your technician license, your job, your credibility in the community?

And I think that's a lot of it, because our community of vet med, no matter where you are, , is relatively small, right? It's like you hear of, six degrees of separation. I feel like it's even smaller than that. You could probably connect yourself to just about anyone. "Oh, I know so and so who knows so and so."

And you... Yeah, and we work hard for this, so we don't want our credibility torn to shreds by someone that potentially is saying unfounded comments and scenarios that are not true. So that's what we have to look at. Is this, something that's annoying, or is my license and credibility on the line here?

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[00:22:00-00:25:00] What Being Undermined Can Look Like in Real Life

 

[00:22:00] So I'll give you an example of my own experience, and I've talked about this before, but I was working at an ER hospital The owner of the hospital was so burnt out, and she was just trying to push this rock up a hill and make this hospital work. But like many ERs, this was, towards the end of COVID.

She was awful to be around. So it was usually one doctor during the day, one doctor at night. If I'm coming in and she's coming off shift, then I'm rounding with her. If she's coming in and I'm finishing up for the day, I'm rounding with her, this particular doctor. And she wasn't, a boarded specialist. Not that necessarily matters, but there were specialists there. But I used to have so much anxiety because she was awful. When we would do rounds, she would say, "Well, why didn't you do this, and this?" And for a hot second, I'm like, "Oh, fuck, I'm an idiot."

And then I'm , "Wait a minute." And this sometimes was, hours after. I'm [00:23:00] overanalyzing, our difference of how we would treat that is literally just that. It's a difference. It doesn't mean one is better than the other. But it was just because she was so irritable and it wasn't just me. I found out later she was like that with everyone.

But she's saying these things in front of the entire staff. So there could be 20-plus of us, and I feel like it's my fourth year in vet school, and we're doing rounds, and I'm getting ripped a new one. So do you think I wanna go back to that? No. But also, what am I gonna say, right? She's saying this to the entire team.

Do I, call her out in the middle of it? Now I would and I would say something. Which she was also, scrolling through her phone as I was telling her stuff. I'm like, "Are you serious? You're not even... Okay, whatever." But I'm , "Okay, what is she gonna tell the clients? What do these support team members think of me if she's, downplaying what I'm doing as a doctor?"

Which thankfully, they saw this with everyone, so they're kinda "Hmm, there's a common denominator here." But that's an example. You know, does it affect patient [00:24:00] care? Those are the things we wanna find out. Now, what are you doing as a result of this person's, excuse me, person's actions?

So for me, in that example, I didn't go back there. But I also really tried to do rounds, as fast as possible so she couldn't really, poke holes in my cases and talk about stuff, 'cause we were just, onto the next one, right? So but I did feel like I was walking on eggshells because she's also the owner of the practice.

But some things to recognize for yourself, are you, yeah, feeling like you're walking on eggshells, you're trying to avoid people. You're maybe over-explaining to others to get them to understand you, and that, that is awful because you're expending a lot more energy and you may be doing that to a person that has zero intention of understanding you or zero intention of giving you the satisfaction that they understand you okay?

So think about that.

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[00:25:00-00:27:00] Standing Up for Yourself Without Reacting in the Moment

 

[00:25:00] Now, another aspect of this is sometimes they're like, "Oh, kill them with kindness," right? Which I have mixed thoughts on that.

I think sometimes that could work. Sometimes what happens is that we end up feeling even shittier because we're now being nice to this person that's rude or disrespectful to us.

So standing up for yourself and addressing things with this person is okay. I think the way that we go about that is what is going to make a difference because I know that if someone says an offhand comment, in passing, it's easy to wanna, jump right back at them. But I will tell you, that doesn't help your credibility because it looks like you are triggered and what they said really got to you.

So you can do it, by all means, but just know [00:26:00] that if you want to be that person that shows up and you're really grounded and comfortable and , "All right, you need to... Are you okay? 'Cause I'm cool, but whatever you just said was ridiculous," that gives you that air of confidence and "I'm unbothered by this.

You might need to go check yourself." So that's where sometimes pulling them aside, having that conversation. There's a lot of nuance to this that I couldn't even cover in probably five episodes of this podcast, but it's sometimes where, yes, getting leadership involved if that's the case, or if your problem is with leadership, it's having this sit-down conversation with them.

But again, doing that from a very grounded, calm place, even if it really activates you, sharing your thoughts and how it's not acceptable is huge

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[00:27:00-00:29:00] Take Action, Create Distance, or Let It Go

 

If it's not, your problem isn't with leadership, [00:27:00] maybe it's a colleague, getting leadership involved, sure. Again, that's gonna depend. You'll probably know better on the clinic, et cetera.

Where we fall off is where we think that, "Okay, I had this conversation with management, they didn't do anything about it, and this person's still rude to me. I feel stuck." But you're still a human. They're a human. You can address it with them, regardless of is this a technician and you're a doctor? Is this a doctor and you're a technician, right?

And I do think sometimes, veterinarians get away with more shit because we're doctors and have some hierarchy in a hospital. That doesn't give us the right to be shitty to support team members. Again, we're all human, so let's just be respectful. So that is something to consider, do I wanna address this?

Who needs to get involved? So some of the options, if you will, are, okay, does this need action? Do I need to take action on this? [00:28:00] Whether I talk to this person, I address this with management, do I just ignore this because they're just saying things that are ridiculous and whatever, and maybe the rest of the team knows , okay, this person's just miserable.

Or maybe it is something where you just distance yourself. Maybe you end up on surgery while this person's doing appointments, or your off days are different, so that way you at least have a day or two where you're working that they are not and vice versa Or maybe that's just, changing where your desk is even, right?

We gotta kinda think outside the box. So sometimes distance isn't a bad thing, but are you doing it as a protective measure, as in, you're protecting your mental capacity and your peace, or are you trying to avoid "I don't wanna deal with this even though it's still gonna bother me"? So that's one thing to think about.

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[00:29:00-00:30:00] What Evidence Do You Actually Have?

 

Another thing here, this is a hard one, but what evidence do you have to support it? In other words, this [00:29:00] is tough, but it's not a game of telephone. So I'm sure this has probably all happened to most if not all of us at some point or another. You work with someone, and then, you come in on your next shift and they're like, "Ugh, so-and-so said this," like maybe about the cases that you saw or how you treated it, and you're like, "What?"

So is that evidence? It could be, right? You gotta use your brain on this, es-especially coming from who's the source. But another part of that is not only is that potentially evidence, but it could be through the lens of the person that's telling it to you. So maybe that's, again, taken out of context. You have to use your brain on that one.

But if you can find true evidence like, "Oh my gosh, they wrote in a medical record they wouldn't have treated the pet like this," or that I did something wrong, or the owner said certain things that made you like, "They couldn't make that up. That definitely came from the other [00:30:00] doctor." Those are the things that you're looking for.

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